I too, was raised a Methodist and transitioned to the Presbyterian Church later. My father once said that you could find a snippet somewhere in the Bible, that if taken out of context read alone, it could support, defend, or deny just about any issue you could dream up.
I think some people just refrain from saying their religious affiliation. 50 years ago protesters weren’t showing up on judges front yards. Breaking into speaker of the house home. Jim
Perhaps, but 50 years ago people were scorned for not attending church, at least in small towns. That’s no longer the case. At least that was my experience.
There's always room for more history! LOL! The separation of church and state in America is indeed a sticky wicket, and is very much grounded in the ugly and violent history of the Church of England and its conflicts with the Catholic Church and Protestant Reformers and Dissenters, going back to the time of Henry VIII. There's not enough space here to recount the millions of pages of history that have been written about it, but the long and short of it was that the Founders wanted to avoid what happened in Britain, Scotland, Ireland, and pre-Revolutionary America by forbidding the establishment of an official state church, such as the Church of England. I think that Jefferson's famous quote is often taken somewhat out of context, with respect to him borrowing liberally from Roger Williams', who originally commented on the "hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" in his 1644 book, "The Bloody Tenent of Persecution." The book's title indicates exactly from where Williams was coming from. With all of that said, I strongly disapprove of modern politicians of all stripes trying to invoke that standard for their own petty partisan purposes. And I also despise certain non-profit organizations which go around and sue school systems and local communities over moments of prayer at sports of events or Nativity scenes in public spaces during the Christmas season. They ignore the part against "prohibiting the free exercise of religion" in public spaces. Here's an interesting case in which an atheist actually sued NASA (Madalyn Murray O’Hair et al. v. Thomas O. Paine, et al. ) because she was offended by the Apollo 8 astronauts reading from the book of Genesis while in orbit. https://education.blogs.archives.gov/2016/04/12/religious-freedom/
Any good political scientist (an oxymoron?) appreciates historians, and I'm no exception. Since that was my secondary field there is so much I have not read and so many periods of which I know very little. I did read The Bloody Tenets and similar period pieces years ago, but I've forgotten much more than I remember.
I don't disagree with any of your arguments. We've become a nation of whiners, scapegoating, and name-calling. We focus on the trivial while ignoring the relevant. I have no problem at all with astronauts reading Genesis, but I do wish they would occasionally read from the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, and other religious texts as well when appropriate.
I'd certainly be interested in hearing of the flying Vimana machines and the wars of the gods in the ancient Hindu and Sanskrit texts! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana ;)
One of my favorite lines is by William Blake: “The vision of Christ that thou dost see is my vision's greatest enemy... Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read'st black where I read white. “ Absolutely nothing that the 'American Taliban' wants or proposes has anything to do with God or the Bible. As with the original Taliban, it is all about control: Control of women, of thought, of 'ofthers', and, above all, of power. It is 'machismo' (Sp. for sexism), racism, and the need to obscure the underlying fear and self-loathing these infantile white men feel. Fear is their motivation - and their weakness.
I was seeing the rise of what I chose to call 'the American Taliban' several years ago. The roots of it were also evident in the early 70s. It was a way to try to sanitize or obscure the stain of decades (centuries?) of racism and sexism, but the 'isms' always eventually come to light.
You might be interested to know that Stephanie Kramer, the senior researcher from Pew on that study you reference about the number of Christians declining, graduated with a psychology BA from Columbia College! A great student and a swell person - I see her every once in a while at conferences.
I too, was raised a Methodist and transitioned to the Presbyterian Church later. My father once said that you could find a snippet somewhere in the Bible, that if taken out of context read alone, it could support, defend, or deny just about any issue you could dream up.
Please run for President!!
You are very kind. Thank you!
I think some people just refrain from saying their religious affiliation. 50 years ago protesters weren’t showing up on judges front yards. Breaking into speaker of the house home. Jim
Perhaps, but 50 years ago people were scorned for not attending church, at least in small towns. That’s no longer the case. At least that was my experience.
Agree ! Interesting times.
There's always room for more history! LOL! The separation of church and state in America is indeed a sticky wicket, and is very much grounded in the ugly and violent history of the Church of England and its conflicts with the Catholic Church and Protestant Reformers and Dissenters, going back to the time of Henry VIII. There's not enough space here to recount the millions of pages of history that have been written about it, but the long and short of it was that the Founders wanted to avoid what happened in Britain, Scotland, Ireland, and pre-Revolutionary America by forbidding the establishment of an official state church, such as the Church of England. I think that Jefferson's famous quote is often taken somewhat out of context, with respect to him borrowing liberally from Roger Williams', who originally commented on the "hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" in his 1644 book, "The Bloody Tenent of Persecution." The book's title indicates exactly from where Williams was coming from. With all of that said, I strongly disapprove of modern politicians of all stripes trying to invoke that standard for their own petty partisan purposes. And I also despise certain non-profit organizations which go around and sue school systems and local communities over moments of prayer at sports of events or Nativity scenes in public spaces during the Christmas season. They ignore the part against "prohibiting the free exercise of religion" in public spaces. Here's an interesting case in which an atheist actually sued NASA (Madalyn Murray O’Hair et al. v. Thomas O. Paine, et al. ) because she was offended by the Apollo 8 astronauts reading from the book of Genesis while in orbit. https://education.blogs.archives.gov/2016/04/12/religious-freedom/
Any good political scientist (an oxymoron?) appreciates historians, and I'm no exception. Since that was my secondary field there is so much I have not read and so many periods of which I know very little. I did read The Bloody Tenets and similar period pieces years ago, but I've forgotten much more than I remember.
I don't disagree with any of your arguments. We've become a nation of whiners, scapegoating, and name-calling. We focus on the trivial while ignoring the relevant. I have no problem at all with astronauts reading Genesis, but I do wish they would occasionally read from the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, and other religious texts as well when appropriate.
Thanks for your comments, Jamie.
I'd certainly be interested in hearing of the flying Vimana machines and the wars of the gods in the ancient Hindu and Sanskrit texts! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana ;)
One of my favorite lines is by William Blake: “The vision of Christ that thou dost see is my vision's greatest enemy... Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read'st black where I read white. “ Absolutely nothing that the 'American Taliban' wants or proposes has anything to do with God or the Bible. As with the original Taliban, it is all about control: Control of women, of thought, of 'ofthers', and, above all, of power. It is 'machismo' (Sp. for sexism), racism, and the need to obscure the underlying fear and self-loathing these infantile white men feel. Fear is their motivation - and their weakness.
I was seeing the rise of what I chose to call 'the American Taliban' several years ago. The roots of it were also evident in the early 70s. It was a way to try to sanitize or obscure the stain of decades (centuries?) of racism and sexism, but the 'isms' always eventually come to light.
I always appreciate your thoughtful comments, Charles. Thank you!
You might be interested to know that Stephanie Kramer, the senior researcher from Pew on that study you reference about the number of Christians declining, graduated with a psychology BA from Columbia College! A great student and a swell person - I see her every once in a while at conferences.